Sean Sebring:
Welcome to SolarWinds TechPod. I’m your host, Chrystal Taylor, and with me as always is my co-host, Sean Sebring. [inaudible 00:00:15]. I’m your host Sean Sebring, and with me as always is my co-host, Chrystal Taylor.
Joining us for this episode is a veteran to SolarWinds thought leadership, Sascha Giese. While Sascha is not green to this topic, our topic is green, sustainability. Before we get into the topics, Sascha, please give our listeners a quick introduction for those who may not have caught you on previous episodes.
Sascha Giese:
Yes, hi guys. My name is Sascha and as you probably get from my accent, I’m from Germany, but don’t you worry, I come in peace. So I’m with SolarWinds for 10 years now and I’m one of the tech evangelists. And usually I’m based in Germany, but right now, live, this very moment I’m in Chicago. And I’m completely jet-lagged, but I try my best to be able to talk to you guys.
Sean Sebring:
Yeah, so I’m excited to talk about this. We’ve teased the topic in previous episodes and it’s something that you’re no stranger to, like I had mentioned in thought leaderships previously.
So elephant in the room, AI is a big, big topic. I kind of wanted to start with energy consumption. And one of the biggest things that we found out is AI runs heavily in those data centers. Data centers are now 1% of the world’s electricity usage. And we’re seeing that obviously with more and more demand on this gen AI, more and more data centers are becoming necessary. So give us your thoughts on data centers and their impact, what you think we could do to mitigate some of this?
Sascha Giese:
Well, yeah, you’re actually not wrong with the energy consumption and I think there’s a different statistic about the environmental impact overall. And the only thing that’s worse than data centers is flying around the globe. And I think even this statistic is going to change in the next five years or so because there will be more and more and more and more data centers.
And the funny thing is, in data centers, they’re actually pretty far ahead of the curve when it comes to things like automation. When it comes to using the latest tech. They try everything to consume as low energy as possible for the obvious reason to lower the running costs. Let’s be fair, that’s the primary reason.
The problem is for some of these data centers, they exist for a relative long time. I think in IT, when we talk about 10 years, that is already ancient. So these data centers, the old ones in specific locations, they have to invest to save money first. And there’s easy examples. They might have vintage storage with spindles, et cetera. And moving on to all flash does cost a lot of money, but lower the energy the devices required. It will significantly lower the energy required to cool everything down.
But yeah, IT, and I think we probably discussed this a few times in this session, is the major driver right now. We start to begin data centers for the only reason to have a little bit more compute power for AI. And that is probably something that is relative new in the past 18 months or so. It’s not that old I think.
Chrystal Taylor:
Well, and speaking of energy consumption, I think one of the most popular sustainability initiatives among tech companies is, because it’s an obvious choice, is switching to renewable energy sources as much as possible as they can get to kind of a net-zero, whether it’s wind or water or whatever.
It’s a big initiative for in the next five, 10 years to completely convert all of these big companies to renewable energy sources. So clearly energy consumption is top of mind for everyone. But it is also I think one of the more obvious ways that they can reduce their footprint, but it does require a significant investment up front.
Sean Sebring:
On the note of investment there too, I wanted to ask Sascha and Chrystal your opinions. Because data centers catch a lot of flak, but in a way, is it possible that they’re also part of reducing footprint? In the sense that if I were to host it with my older technology rather than hosting in the cloud at one of these data centers, is any energy consumption offset by that? Is it significant? What are your thoughts Sascha?
Sascha Giese:
That could get a risky topic. You ever heard of greenwashing, I suppose? So that is when companies try to outsource their resources to cloud providers for example. And it’s very easy for them to say, “Hey, we now use 10% less energy, we just have shifted it elsewhere.” That’s perfect greenwashing.
Data centers could actually use the heat, for example, for other use cases. I think in Sweden or in Denmark, there’s some trial of using the heat from a data center to heat up a village in winter. So they built one of you, I don’t know, big cubes to transfer heat. The problem is it can’t be too far away, otherwise the concept doesn’t really work, right. So it’s complicated I suppose.
Sean Sebring:
No, and fair point. Reason I was asking is you’d mentioned that these data centers are using top of the line technology. So I was curious if shifting where you’re doing your processing, computing, storing, if you don’t have the highest tech, is it any significant contribution?
And I like those ideas of how the data centers, what do we call them, green initiatives? That’s a cool concept. I’d spoke about this in a previous episode. But my buddy who works for the LCRA in Texas, the Lower Colorado River Authority, one of the ways that they keep their data centers cool is leveraging said river, right? Leveraging the Colorado River. And now of course that’s putting the heat somewhere else, in the river, but it’s a more green method of doing it, so to speak.
So of course there’s environmental impacts that need to be done when doing things like this. But I think those are really cool green initiatives. And I think again, just leveraging what we have is a good idea.
Chrystal Taylor:
I think part of what comes out these days is that we’re forcing innovation. So the sustainable initiatives that are going across the outrage, global warming, all of these initiatives by the governments and things like that to reduce carbon footprints, breeds innovation. So that does mean sometimes that the newer technologies are going to be greener.
They’re going to have less emissions. They’re going to use less energy by nature of the fact that they were created under the assumption that they needed to do those things. It doesn’t mean that older equipment can’t use less energy also, but the real question is what meets your needs? Because you still have a business to run at the end of the day. So if it’s going to take 10 old computers or one new computer, I mean are you offsetting any of that resource consumption or energy cost or temperature emissions?
I mean the temperature thing is really all about displacement. Everything that you said there about putting it in the Colorado River, right? That’s really just temperature displacement. The same thing Sascha’s talking about too, using the heat from the data center to heat a village or even an office building.
It’s for temperature stuff, it’s about displacement because we’re not reducing the amount of heat that any of that stuff is putting off. So as we move forward and as things are being designed, if that’s part of the consideration for while they’re designing them, to reduce the temperature of those things, then those things won’t be the same initiatives. It’s all part of the innovation that’s required.
Sascha Giese:
It’s a pity that we can’t send this excessive heat into space, right? No, I remember I went to an event last year and there was a dude who talked about green IT and data centers, et cetera. And I’m just calling him a dude, he was actually a professor.
He explained this interesting concept to me that you could potentially shift light workloads around the globe from data center to data center, where the data center uses, for example, solar energy. For example here, if I look out of my hotel window, the sun is coming up. I don’t know if there’s a data center in Chicago, but it could be the perfect time to have a light load here right now. Instead of, I don’t know, somewhere where it’s dark right now.
But you can’t do this with each workload. This is basically a small container moving around. That’s perfectly fine. You would never do this with a serious application.
Sean Sebring:
And that’s that innovation, right? Literally having the energy follow the sun in that sense. No, I think that’s great. That’s a really cool concept. I’d like to hear and see more about that. What other green initiatives do you think are promising?
Sascha Giese:
Well, green coding is a big one. Green coding is actually a very, very big topic and there has a couple of ways to measure the efficiency of the code that you create. For example, how many resources do you consume? Resources meaning CPU cycles, power. How efficient is the code? How long does it take for process to finish? You can measure these things and you can keep on optimizing, optimizing, optimizing.
The problem is all this optimization does cost a little bit of money and development. Majority of software companies are, how to say this politically correct, are driven by shareholder pressure. And there’s higher priorities than optimizing code to be green. To say it that way.
Sometimes it’s perfectly understandable. You want code that runs without errors, for example. That might be more important. But developers rarely are given enough time to optimize for efficiency when it comes to these things, which is an unfortunate thing. We might need laws at some point to enforce this. I don’t know. I’m just throwing this out as a statement because I don’t see the majority of companies doing this on a voluntary level.
Sean Sebring:
Do you think with gen AI and how it’s able to assist with coding, it will be able to impact that at all? Finding more efficient means of coding for resource utilization?
Sascha Giese:
That could be possible, but consider the energy consumption of the AI while optimizing. Chicken and egg, right?
Sean Sebring:
Yeah, it is an inevitability that we’re moving towards leveraging gen AI to help us with a lot of coding, but you’re right, it itself is using energy. So it may not really offset too much at all in that sense.
Sascha Giese:
Yeah, at least today. Who knows where we are in this topic in two years. So I could see potential in this area.
Chrystal Taylor:
Yeah, I mean I think the last time we talked about green code on TechPod was like two years ago, Sascha. So yeah, anything can happen. The innovation and technology happens so rapidly that there’s no reason to think that we won’t have leaps and bounds in this area. Especially because there’s government initiatives to reduce carbon footprints and reduce energy consumption.
I did want to talk about the energy consumption a little bit, but I know one of the big green initiatives that’s going on right now is Bill Gates and these nuclear power plants. And as a person that lives in a place, and I know Sascha has been through this as well, where energy has become scarce at times.
Where I live in Texas, and if you don’t know this, we have our own power grid that’s separated from the rest of the United States. And in the last two or three years during the cold season, because it’s mostly hot here, but during the cold season, we have lost power in huge sections of the state.
And it happens in the heat, heat of the summer. There’s rolling blackouts sometimes and things like that to conserve because they don’t want to build more power plants and things like that. So I actually found the story of these nuclear power plants that they’re working on in Washington, I think it was, Washington State.
Really heartening for me to see because I keep hoping that Texas is going to fix our energy problems. And it’s only going to get worse because we do have technology companies that have moved to Austin and things like that. So it’s only going to continue to get worse. The power draw is going to continue to increase, and if ERCOT, which is our energy grid, doesn’t do something about it, it’s not going to get better.
So it is an interesting problem to have. And I know, Sascha, at least maybe a year or two ago, I remember hearing issues with energy consumption in Germany as well. So I’m curious to see what you think about this power plant situation that’s going on.
Sascha Giese:
The problems in Germany are a little bit different. A couple of years ago, the government decided to step away from nuclear energy. And as far as I’m aware, they already shut down all but one or two. So the idea was to move on to renewable energy. So they built a couple of those, what do you call it in English? The turbine things?
Chrystal Taylor:
The wind turbines?
Sascha Giese:
Yes. And then all the NIMBYs came around. Like, “Oh, this is nice, but I don’t want them in my neighborhood because they’re noisy and there’s all this radiation. And I have to wear the tinfoil hat.” And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So when we keep on the way we do this right now, we get into trouble with energy.
Now in Europe you have a combined net, so not like what you just said, with Texas having their own. Europe has basically one big electricity net. And in Germany, we happen to buy a lot of electricity from France because they have tons of nuclear power.
So the majority in Germany is completely against the power plants. I am the exception. I’m not too scared because most of those power plants with the bad reputation have been built in the ’70s or ’80s. That’s a long time ago.
And when we talk about new technology, this is far more secure. And the idea Gates is talking about is a little bit comparable with edge computing. We are not talking about these huge big things. It’s smaller. I don’t know, micro-reactors, I’m just calling it, I’m making up this word. But smaller things which we can place closer to the consumers. And I think that is actually not the worst idea I’ve heard. So I’m a fan.
Sean Sebring:
One other thing that’s neat about these is, Chrystal, you kind of mentioned this, something being designed with a specific concept in mind, the green. These were designed to be safer. Obviously safety’s the most important part about a nuclear power plant, but more efficient and recycling their own nuclear waste.
So they’re thinking about this in the design concept, not just how much energy can it produce for us? So there’s a lot more in mind with this. And yeah, I’m really happy with the timing of this showing up right when AI is saying, “Hey, I’m going to be huge and cost a lot of energy consumption.”
Chrystal Taylor:
Well, and not just AI. I mean, look at the larger world. All these bitcoin farmers and stuff, they are using massive amounts of power and energy and resources on doing this bitcoin farming, for instance. That takes also massive amounts and they eat up all of our GPUs that we want to use for gaming. And that’s also a problem.
But I think that just in general, we have more people every year and we have more energy requirements. As technology advances, if energy consumption is not in the forefront of the design, we’re not trying to reduce the energy costs of the things that we’re designing and making and all of that, then we’re just going to continue to have problems.
And it’s not just the tech industry that is a problem for this, right? Fashion industry has real sustainability problems and just kind of across the world. America is terrible in some ways in all of this. We have what’s called fast fashion in most of the Western civilizations, and that’s all really bad for so many reasons. Including energy consumption in the factories to make all of this stuff.
So I think that as we continue to move forward, these kinds of initiatives are really promising, especially because it’s backed by such a prominent figure that just – Bill Gates being Bill Gates – I think that that helps because even people who are not in technology know who Bill Gates is. He’s leveraging that status to kind of put attention and shine a light on a real problem and how he’s going about helping to solve that problem. And I wish we had more billionaires who did stuff like that.
Sean Sebring:
The biggest consumer of this is IT. So it’s good to see someone from IT with an initiative like this, setting an example. So I agree.
Sascha Giese:
It’s an interesting thought. Most companies around the globe struggle with budget at some point. And when we talk about energy consumption, all they see is probably the bill from the energy provider for X amount thousand of dollars. And then the C-level sit together and like, “We need to reduce that.”
And the first question is how? They probably have no idea how much energy is each department consuming. That’s the first step. And it is obviously possible to measure the energy consumption of each single device in IT, in production, in administration, and blah, blah, blah. That is a timely process, a costly process, not exactly an easy one.
But in IT, we have the advantage that we could start right from the start when we roll out a device. When we deploy something new, we could watch the energy consumption right from the beginning. And everything else is just a calculation.
And I mean obviously we are a software company, so as it happens, our tools can do this, but just loads of other tools that can do this. It’s a vendor-agnostic thing. But for many IT teams, this is not a priority. They just want to make sure the stuff is rolled out and runs. And oh, yeah, maybe in different architecture we could have saved 20% energy. I don’t know. Yeah, that’s life, I guess.
Chrystal Taylor:
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know how many IT projects I’ve been part of where energy consumption was even mentioned. It’s not even a consideration during the planning phase for a lot of projects.
Sascha Giese:
Do you think more than two?
Chrystal Taylor:
I don’t think it’s been a part of any that I’ve been a part of.
Sean Sebring:
It’s totally a fair point. And you mentioned something I kind of want to talk about, which is something that’s practical that I think is actively done. And we’ll talk about ways we can take the concept maybe and do more with it.
But it’s the circular IT. Refurbishing, reusing, recycling. I know we’ve talked about this in other episodes too, but I feel like some companies who manufacture IT products have gotten a little bit better at this. And as a consumer, sometimes it’s a little annoying.
I can recall with every phone I got, I would get a new power block and a new cord. They don’t all come with the same cords anymore. They don’t always all come with the same thing. They are assuming hopefully at this point, you probably got 15 in a drawer. You’re like, “I might need this one day.”
And so I know a big one was USB-C cables. And I’m not talking about the new USB-C or maybe it’s USB-A, the printer cable. I had so many printer cables and never needed them. But I was just one of those dads, even before I was a dad, that had a box of cables thinking I may need this one day.
Chrystal Taylor:
Every person that works in IT has a box of cables. And if you say you don’t, I don’t believe you.
Sean Sebring:
But on this topic though, of refurbishing, reusing. Sascha, what are your thoughts on circular IT like that? And what do you think we could do more with it? Or areas that could be more effective?
Sascha Giese:
When we get hardware for IT, we usually calculate for a life, half-life? No, half-life is a game. For the time to use it. Usually three years, that’s the standard warranty. And when the three years are over, we tend to get new equipment. But that’s not always the right approach.
A better approach is to just buy maybe one or two more years of warranty. That’s possible. Set up three to go for five years because who is using these machines? Let’s look at our company. We have loads of administrative jobs, marketing, sales. And those jobs, it doesn’t really matter to them if they use a machine that’s six months old or three years old because the job they do doesn’t require the latest performance.
That’s a little bit different for a developer who’s compiling. That is different for creative team who creates videos. They might need more modern machines. But for the majority they can keep those machines by far longer than what we actually do.
Now, let’s go a step back and we talk about data centers. Situation in theory the same, but the energy that you save between generation to generation is so big. The situation there is a little bit different. So there, it could actually make sense to swap the gear in a shorter cycle than a workstation or a desktop.
Chrystal Taylor:
I think too what you’re talking about, people who are in non-developer roles and things like that, that don’t need more robust machines. Well, one of the problems is usually they’re in non-technical roles and they don’t understand good computer maintenance.
So I feel like that partially could be, like the complaints and the requests for new equipment every few years, could be resolved by training. Teaching them how to maintain their workstation in a better capacity. So that it actually does last longer and they’re not having as many issues with it.
There are plenty of underprivileged people out there in the world, kids and things like that. Schools are moving to technology. My son doesn’t even bring textbooks home anymore. Everything is in the classroom or it’s in Google Classroom online and they don’t even use most physical things anymore at all. And that’s in a regular public school in Texas. But there’s certainly inner city kids and things like that, that could benefit from a computer even if the computer is three or five years old.
So why not reformat the hard drives and wipe them clean and donate them to people who can use them if you’re done with them and can’t use them anymore? There are certainly other options besides just using them yourself. That would be a sustainable initiative and would help somebody out. You’re not going to do anything with that.
I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard what’s going to happen when I turn old equipment back in and they’re just like, “Yeah, it’s going to get thrown away basically.” Not just here, but other places. That monitor is old, it’s out. We want a new monitor that works better. The monitors I use for my computer now are the same monitors I’ve had for, I’m going to say 10 years. I’ve had them a very long time and they still work and I still use them.
But if I were to turn them in like, “Oh, I’m done with them, I’m going to turn them in.” Then they’d be gone. They’d be thrown away. They’re useless anymore. It’s not the latest technology. And that attitude is unfortunately prevalent, not just in IT, but also all throughout, right?
If I work in sales or I work in marketing and I’ve decided I’m going to request a new computer because I don’t feel like I can get my job done as quickly and efficiently if my computer is not performing where I expect it to. These are things I feel like education would be useful for people who are non-technical to help them maintain their workstations so that they do last longer. Because then you could extend the warranty by two years and it would be fine before they needed a replacement.
Sascha Giese:
That just sparked an amazing idea. Just imagine you work help desk and there’s a ticket coming in. “My computer is so slow, I need a new one.” No problem, sir. So then you go to the storage room and you pick the same laptop that person’s already using, re-image, copy the profile. Here’s a brand new machine. “Yes, awesome. Thank you. Works.” They won’t even notice the difference.
Chrystal Taylor:
That’s true.
Sean Sebring:
I was thinking the same thing, Sascha, I’m not going to lie. Just as a habit to keep people on clean machines. That since they don’t know how to clear the cache, if I just give them a whole new machine, it’s easier.
Sascha Giese:
Yeah. Maybe polish a little bit, clean the keyboard.
Sean Sebring:
And I’m not dogging any specific company, but when I get my refreshed laptop, I almost don’t even notice any difference. Maybe one of the keys moved a little bit, right? Someone on the design team said they’re going to think it’s the same thing. Let’s move a couple of the keyboard keys around so it looks newer. But it really is so comparable.
And, Sascha, you couldn’t be more right. I haven’t been in an ops position for six years now, actually a little more than that. But everything I do is on Chrome. Everything I do is in a browser. As someone who’s worked in IT, I know how to manage my browser. In fact, I was a couple minutes late to our recording because my browsers were running slow. I was like, “I need to kill this and let it take a quick nap for 10 seconds and then come back.”
And so I had to reopen my tabs, find our outline, and get the recording open. But even the recording’s done in a browser tab now. So I don’t need a cool machine for anything other than well, gaming later, but that’s on me, right? I don’t need my company to provide me a powerhouse.
And maybe to your point, Sascha, the computers that we’re using are more efficient than the ones 10 years ago, but not significantly. The computers themselves, similar to how you said with the data centers, might be a little more energy efficient. But even a company wouldn’t have to worry about offsetting that cost now with how much remote work is done. That’s going to my bill. It’s on me. It’s not really your footprint that it’s impacting.
So I think these are all great topics and I would, just from a charitable standpoint, love to see more done with them rather than throwing it away. It just breaks my heart. So it’s like my dad instinct. I hate seeing food thrown away, which is why I gained weight. But also it’s just like, “Don’t waste that. There’s value in that. That’s something precious that someone else could want.” And then I end up eating four meals.
Chrystal Taylor:
I’m going to use that next time I have to reset my router or restart my computer. You just need to take a nap real quick. Time for a nap.
I think that that’s a good point though. I mean, there is a certain point in your life where you get, I think most people get to that point. You call it your dad instincts or whatever, but where you’re like, “Oh, no, I can’t have waste.” I had problems growing up, but I also, I can’t have waste.
Every summer we would have to manually bring in water. So you absolutely could not waste water where I lived. And so I have always had this super-specific, I cannot stand knowing someone is wasting water. It hadn’t translated to anything besides water for so long until I became a parent. And then it’s like, “Oh, there’s… food costs so much now.” And there’s all these other things.
So if you just extended your instincts of whatever thing that you hate to see wasted, just extend it to everything else, maybe try not to waste stuff. I get mad at my son for leaving his computer running all the dang time. He’s not even here, and I bet his computer is on. I need to go check now. But little things like that.
And you say all this work from home, it’s not really part of their footprint anymore, but it is. It’s that like chain footprint, right? It’s like a third party footprint. But if you’re working with a third party that has a huge carbon footprint, that’s still on you if you’re having them do services for you. So even as the employee, the carbon footprint that I generate for work specifically should be considered as part of the company’s carbon footprint. Because would I be having that same impact if I were not working?
Sean Sebring:
That’s funny. That’s what Sascha brought up earlier, the greenwashing. And that’s something that’s so tricky. Sustainability metrics in general. I don’t know how else to really track it. And, Sascha, you brought up such a good point. There’s such massive effort that would need to go into how do we determine someone’s carbon footprint?
But the greenwashing, I haven’t looked at any recent reports, but now I’m very curious. I’d be curious to think that in years post-COVID, do companies now start saying, “Look how much less we’re using in electricity since we don’t have people in the building anymore. They’re working from home.”
Chrystal Taylor:
It’s good PR.
Sean Sebring:
Yeah. “Oh, you work from home now. My electricity bill is lower, therefore, as a company, I produce less carbon.”
Chrystal Taylor:
Well, and some of that is true, like factual, right? They shut down big offices and things like that, that were using larger footprints than an individual would from home. Even-
Sean Sebring:
On the commute.
Chrystal Taylor:
Yeah, the commute, yeah. Think about it. So it’s not necessarily a lie.
Sascha Giese:
But now I’m feeling that maybe I’m not the right person for this TechPod because last week I was in Johannesburg, now I’m in Chicago. In two weeks, I’m in Dubai. So I do contribute a little bit to our economic footprint.
Sean Sebring:
I don’t know if that was statistic or just an analogy you said earlier. But at the start, Sascha, you said the only thing that’s more is flying around the world.
Chrystal Taylor:
Yeah, carbon emissions from planes.
Sascha Giese:
I am confident that’s going to change. IT will unfortunately get to number one in this position too.
Sean Sebring:
I was hanging onto my seat for a second. You’re like, “That’s going to change.” I was like, “He’s got something positive to say.” No, it’s just that IT is going to consume more and more. Okay.
Chrystal Taylor:
I mean, we did mention two semi-recent technologies that have increased our energy consumption footprint and our carbon footprint in the last few years. But the graphics cards with the Bitcoin mining and AI because AI does take huge workloads.
And something we haven’t really talked about is one of the ways that I think companies do a little bit of greenwashing is offloading stuff to SaaS services. So that it’s no longer their footprint. It’s this SaaS company’s footprint. And that’s just somebody else’s computer somewhere else. So it’s not… is it reducing?
Sean Sebring:
Well, and talk about, hard to calculate the metrics on it, Sascha. Like, man, every customer for a cloud vendor is going to be a different size with different demands on their platforms. And wow. Yeah, that would be a nightmare to calculate.
But you’re right, Chrystal. And that’s kind of why I was asking about it when we first started talking about the greenwashing, is does it actually offset anything? Maybe because their systems, their data center, their code’s more efficient than what I would use, maybe a little bit, but it’s a deferred carbon footprint. It’s not eliminating it from you.
Sascha Giese:
Yeah. I mean, in theory, you probably save, you actually save a little bit. The same way virtualization saves energy because we use the resources better. Now we use containers, which is even more putting things together just to use the resources in a smarter way than the past.
And data centers, obviously, or cloud providers, so what do we call them? Hyperscalers. They do this too. I guess the three of us, we probably have personal websites and they run somewhere on a server with shared CPUs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, I’m pretty sure it’s consuming lower energy than we would run all of this on-prem, our companies at home. But that is not a big number. I don’t think it’s a big difference.
Chrystal Taylor:
Yeah, you’re right. If I ran my website myself from its own server here, then I would have a server that I previously didn’t have. It would be a much larger footprint for me to do it myself.
Sean Sebring:
All of this is really good. And one of my favorite things that we talked about was the practical things that could be done, right? Something for you to think about is what could we do? Check into what your organization already does. See if you can take part in it.
And like Chrystal mentioned, see if there’s things that you can use less at your house. I’m also the light switch police. The fan police. Is something left on? We all have a part to play in it. So sustainability is everyone’s responsibility, not just corporations. So call to action for everyone there.
But this has been a great episode. I hope we’ve sustained an entertaining conversation for you. Thanks as always for joining us, Sascha.
Sascha Giese:
Welcome. Thanks for having me.
Sean Sebring:
And thank you listeners for joining us on another episode of SolarWinds TechPod. I’m your host, Sean Sebring, joined by fellow host Chrystal Taylor. If you haven’t yet, make sure to subscribe and follow for more TechPod content. Thanks for tuning in.
